Legislature(1999 - 2000)
05/14/1999 01:40 PM House JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
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SJR 25 - VOLUNTARY SCHOOL PRAYER CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the next order of business is SJR 25, "Relating to voluntary school prayer." CHAIRMAN KOTT noted the presence of Representative Sanders. CHAIRMAN KOTT indicated the resolution, if passed, would be sent to Alaska's congressional delegation. Number 0232 MARK HODGINS, Legislative Assistant to Senator Jerry Ward, Alaska State Legislature, came forward on behalf of the prime sponsor. Senate Joint Resolution 25 would send a message to Congress that the State of Alaska has ratified, and agrees to, the article to the Constitution of the United States. He explained that 38 states would have to ratify this over the next seven years, from January 6, 1999 in order for the Article to become part of the Constitution. Ratification would allow voluntary prayer in schools as was exercised freely under the Constitution until the 1960s when the U.S. Supreme Court ruled to the contrary. Mr. Hodgins noted the amendment to the constitution, in the form of an Article, would read: Nothing in this Constitution shall be construed to prohibit individual or group prayer in public schools or other public institutions. No person shall be required by the United States or by any State to participate in prayer. Neither the United States nor any State shall prescribe the content of any such prayer. MR. HODGINS indicated passage of SJR 25 would send the Alaska State Legislature's concurrence to Congress. Hopefully, 37 other states would also do so and this would become an Article of the Constitution. Mr. Hodgins noted that Representative Sanders wished to speak on the resolution. CHAIRMAN KOTT questioned if there was a current initiative or amendment to the Constitution in Congress. MR. HODGINS replied yes. He informed the committee that HJR 7 proposes an amendment to the Constitution relating to voluntary school prayer in the House of Representatives dated January 6, 1999. If that is ratified by three-quarters of the states within seven years of January 6, 1999, it would move forward. In further response to Chairman Kott, he said that Ms. Emmerson introduced the joint resolution. Mr. Hodgins noted that none of Alaska's Congressional delegation had signed onto this resolution. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI expressed the need to read SJR 1 and HJR 7, if this resolution would urge their adoption by Congress. MR. HODGINS indicated that copies could be provided. REPRESENTATIVE CROFT understood that nothing has passed Congress yet. CHAIRMAN KOTT explained that the initial hurtle of its passage, a two-thirds vote, in Congress is still pending. After passage, it would go to the states where it would require three-quarters vote and then ratification. Number 0452 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON requested that the status of the resolution be confirmed. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked if the congressional resolutions, SJR 1 and HJR 7 are identical. MR. HODGINS indicated they are identical. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI referred to the second "WHEREAS" and asked if there are numbers supporting that people want a constitutional amendment versus just being able to have voluntary prayer in school. MR. HODGINS said that he didn't have the actual numbers furthermore, he wasn't sure that there has been an actual referendum on that. However, there has been a tremendous amount of support across America to return voluntary prayer in schools. He pointed out that there is much reference to God, a single deity, within government and social structure. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI expressed the need to ensure that the language is accurate in saying that a "vast majority" support a constitutional amendment allowing such. MR. HODGINS reiterated that he didn't have the actual figures. He noted that generally, these resolutions for federal action are similar in composure in order to send the same message to all legislatures. Number 0622 CHAIRMAN KOTT indicated agreement with Representative Murkowski that the statement seems rather factual. Is there information suggesting that the majority of Alaskans, representing the majority of all political parties, support voluntary prayer in schools? MR. HODGINS reiterated that he didn't know if there has been a referendum in Alaska on this issue. However, it is safe to say that there is a strong belief that there is a vast majority of Americans subscribing to a voluntary moment of prayer. CHAIRMAN KOTT said that he was having difficulty with the language, "vast majority." REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said that she believed there is a large majority of support for voluntary prayer in schools. MR. HODGINS commented that he didn't know of any organized group against voluntary prayer. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if, in order to circumvent this problem, there would be any merit to moving lines 5-6 between lines 11-12 so that it would read, "WHEREAS the Alaska State Legislature favors a constitutional amendment". CHAIRMAN KOTT indicated that would be more appropriate. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI agreed that a statement of fact can't be made without knowing what our basis for the fact is. She said she would be far more comfortable eliminating the language "vast majority" and speaking only in terms of Alaskans. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES pointed out that the resolution says "voluntary prayer," although she understood that the majority of folks would want voluntary silent prayer. One of the big objections to prayer in school is the verbalization of the prayer. Therefore, she would be more supportive for voluntary silent prayer. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said that he was also concerned with the second "WHEREAS." The language should speak to Alaskans and there shouldn't be any reference to political parties. Representative Rokeberg suggested that the committee adopt the Article language or something similar in order to illustrate what people are voting for. CHAIRMAN KOTT suspected that a copy of both the resolutions would be attached to this resolution for any floor debate. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI explained that if Congress is urged to adopt this, the two resolutions are specific to prayer and don't allow for a moment of silence. Number 1088 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS, Alaska State Legislature, informed the committee that he had a companion bill to SJR 25 which he hasn't moved. He explained that SJR 25 merely asks that nothing in the Constitution can be construed to prohibit individual or group prayer in public schools or other public institutions. No person shall be required by any state or the United States to participate in prayer. Nor shall either prescribe the content of any prayer. REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS recalled that someone said that there are no atheists in foxholes which is what our schools are beginning to look like. This is the direct result of a misguided decision over 40 years ago. The result has been the breakdown of the moral and social fiber. In the last few weeks, Representative Sanders has been impressed that every single Columbine High School student interviewed has freely admitted to praying for their safety. However, he is vigilant for the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) or some attorney to file charges against those admitting to prayer in the Columbine High School Library because it is a crime under the current interpretation of the Constitution. REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS also recalled that Governor Knowles had recently said, "We must pray for our children." He agreed with the Governor, but indicated the need to teach our children to pray for themselves. A civilized society is supported by family, church and school. Prayer should be encouraged in all areas. In conclusion, he noted that no clergy are present. CHAIRMAN KOTT closed public testimony. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI pointed out that the problem with the second "WHEREAS" wasn't resolved. Number 1493 CHAIRMAN KOTT said that could be resolved by striking "a vast majority of Americans of all political parties" on line 5 and insert "Alaskans." He offered that as a conceptual amendment for discussion. However, he maintained his difficulty with the language sounding factual when there are not figures available. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI echoed Representative James' belief that the majority, the vast majority, of Alaskans would support voluntary prayer or a moment of silence in public schools. There is concern that the prayer would be structured which could be alleviated with the moment of silence option. CHAIRMAN KOTT commented that would go beyond the scope of the resolution. MR. HODGINS pointed out that the congressional resolutions have different last sentences. He didn't believe that the sponsor would have any problems with Chairman Kott's conceptual amendment. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG commented that Representative Murkowski's advice could run afoul of the resolution. He reiterated his concern regarding the adoption of the Congressional resolutions through the adoption of SJR 25 which only references the Congressional resolutions. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES clarified that the real problem is supporting something without knowing the end reslut. How the prayer is given is problematic for everyone, of all religions and beliefs. She said that having a silent time would allow each to do as they wish. Therefore, Representative James didn't see Alaska or the nation passing a constitutional amendment allowing verbalized prayer. Number 2017 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN suggested replacing the second "WHEREAS" with "WHEREAS the Alaska Legislature believes that...Nothing in this Constitution shall be construed to prohibit individual or group prayer in public schools or other public institutions." That would tie into the Congressional resolutions. CHAIRMAN KOTT suggested that the three parts of the Article be made into "WHEREAS" clauses. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said that he hadn't intended to insert all three. MR. HODGINS clarified that one Congressional resolution utilizes the word "prescribe" while the other utilizes the word "compose." REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked Representative Green then if he would be saying that the "BE IT RESOLVED" portion of SJR 25 be eliminated which would address Representative James' concern regarding the unknown result. She asked if Representative Green's language spoke to a moment of silence. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN replied no. He noted that originally he was going to suggest the following: "WHEREAS the Alaska Legislature favors a constitutional amendment that will allow a moment of silence for voluntary prayer in public schools." CHAIRMAN KOTT commented that language is redundant. By passage, that indicates support. Chairman Kott recommended replacing "Alaska Legislature" with "Alaskans." REPRESENTATIVE CROFT interjected that usually the language, "Alaska State Legislature" is utilized. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES commented that is the only measure at hand. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN suggested then that there be three "WHEREAS" clauses and the "BE IT RESOLVED" would be the language he previously read as a new "WHEREAS" clause. CHAIRMAN KOTT said he believed that would move closer. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN clarified that SJR 25 would then consist of the first, third, and fourth "WHEREAS" clauses and the "BE IT RESOLVED" would read, "BE IT RESOLVED that the Alaska Legislature... TAPE 99-70, SIDE A REPRESENTATIVE GREEN understood then that the desire was to separate the moment of silence, so that the individual doesn't necessarily have to pray although the time is set aside for prayer. Number 0053 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN moved that the committee adopt Amendment 1: Delete lines 5-6 There being no objection, Amendment 1 was adopted. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN moved that the committee adopt the following amendment: Delete lines 12-14 Insert "BE IT RESOLVED the Alaska Legislature favors a constitutional amendment that will allow a moment of silence for voluntary prayer in public schools." REPRESENTATIVE JAMES questioned if the intent is to request that this happen or for it to always happen. Without forming it as a right, we won't be any better off than we already are. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if instead of "allow" the language "provide for" would satisfy that concern. Therefore, the amendment would read as follows: Delete lines 12-14 Insert "BE IT RESOLVED the Alaska Legislature favors a constitutional amendment that will provide for a moment of silence for voluntary prayer in public schools." CHAIRMAN KOTT pointed out that there is not a quorum. He called an at-ease at 2:25 p.m. The committee was called back to order at 3:30 p.m. CHAIRMAN KOTT announced that SJR 25 would be put aside for the moment. SJR 25-VOLUNTARY SCHOOL PRAYER CHAIRMAN KOTT announced that the committee would now return to SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 25, Relating to voluntary school prayer. Chairman Kott announced that due to a prior lack of a quorum, Amendment 1 which would delete lines 5-6 was still before the committee. There being no objection, it was so ordered. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN reiterated his prior motion to delete lines 12-14. There being no objection, it was so ordered. Number 1872 CHAIRMAN KOTT moved the third conceptual amendment: In place of lines 12-14 Insert "BE IT RESOLVED that the Alaska State Legislature urges the United States Congress to adopt an amendment to the Constitution of the United States that will provide for a moment of silence for voluntary prayer in public schools." There being no objection, it was so ordered. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN moved to report SJR 25 as amended out of committee with individual recommendations and the zero fiscal note. There being no objection, it was so ordered and HCSSJR 25(JUD) was reported from committee.
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